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12:58 am
June 22, 2012
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Found an old brochure on the Schneider Kreuznach website (archive section), maybe from the eighties.
Back then, they offered a wider range of 1" sensor lenses:
6.5/1.8, 10/1.8, 16/1.4, 25/0.95, 25/1.4, 25/1.9, 50/0.95, 50/2.0, 75/2.8, 100/2.8, 150/4.0, and finally, the very interesting 18-90/2.0 Variogon.
There are at least three different versions of the Variogon, that differ mainly in the arrangement of iris and zoom rings. Apparently, the most recent version has gear rings with 0.4 and might therefore be suitable for use with fitting follow focus devices (though most have a standard of 0.8)
12:09 pm
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April 7, 2012
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Hey Thyl, thanks for the link!! (google doc) I had something similar but with less lenses and bad graphic. Good share.
Yes the 18-90 Variogon seems interesting.
Does someone have some inputs on the quality of the optics?
Compared to an Angenieux?
Razz said:
"The highest resolution zone plate on a Plutora resolution chart is 97 LPMM . This is the practical upper resolution limit for 1080p/2k HD.
Thanks again for your input. I didn't think 100lp/mm was 2K's practical resolution limit. Thought it would be higher than that. I was looking at getting lenses at least 120lp/mm.
Also, why do so many people say a 100-120lpmm CCTV lens is inadequate for S16 / 2K then? (apart from build quality)
And Razz, if you are indeed D.R., I sent you a PM "somewhere else"... 
12:46 pm
Camera Owner
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March 18, 2012
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CCTV lenses often have short throws for focusing, but the main thing that makes most of them not suitable is the iris pattern. Unlike cine lenses CCTV lenses have 3 (tevidons) to 8 blades and the shape of the opening is rarely a perfect circle. Zeiss tevidons have triangle openings, some chinese brands have blades that make a square opening, and even when the blades make a circular pattern they often cause a star like pattern when in the middle apurtures.
6:26 pm
March 27, 2012
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analoggab said
Hey Thyl, thanks for the link!! (google doc) I had something similar but with less lenses and bad graphic. Good share.
Yes the 18-90 Variogon seems interesting.
Does someone have some inputs on the quality of the optics?
Compared to an Angenieux?Razz said:
"The highest resolution zone plate on a Plutora resolution chart is 97 LPMM . This is the practical upper resolution limit for 1080p/2k HD.Thanks again for your input. I didn't think 100lp/mm was 2K's practical resolution limit. Thought it would be higher than that. I was looking at getting lenses at least 120lp/mm.
Also, why do so many people say a 100-120lpmm CCTV lens is inadequate for S16 / 2K then? (apart from build quality)And Razz, if you are indeed D.R., I sent you a PM "somewhere else"...
The 97 lpmm Plutora chart is optimized for 1080p 2/3" broadcast cameras. The ultra high end very expensive Fuji cine primes for 2/3" are specified at 90% MTF at 56 LPMM.
The reason to go for higher resolution lenses is to get near 100% MTF at the resolutions that really matter visually. When 16mm film was the medium of choice, the lenses far outperformed the films that were used with them for resolution, but delivered really high MTF to the film for good grey scale and color contrast. It was only with recent negative stocks like the new Fuji Eterna that 16mm film stocks actually exceeded the resolution of the best 1080p video cameras.
I'll look for your PM.
10:11 pm
June 22, 2012
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Hieber: Indeed, frustrating. Some of the Schneider lenses are called "Cinegon" which give some hope that they are really no CCTV lenses, even if marketed as such, but were carried over from the good old days. That is of course no guarantee that the iris blades are still the same.
Anyway, after having read that the Variogon had a price of 2300 Euros new, I could not resist to buy one at 250 Euro that looks pretty good on photo, and I will provide some remarks thereon.
EDIT: I found this regarding the iris:
http://s4.photobucket.com/albu.....gon_03.jpg
So it is actually five blade, and not very circular. 
And yet another link with quite some used Super-16 lenses:
11:44 am
June 22, 2012
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For the sake of completeness, I also did a research on the Carl Zeiss Jena "Tevidon" series of 1 inch lenses. Those were advertised as "Lenses for Vidikon television cameras". These were:
10 mm/2.0; 16 mm/1.8; 25 mm/1.4, 35 mm/1.9, 50 mm/1.8; 70 mm/2.8; 100 mm/2.8; 18-90 mm/2, and a 15-150 mm.
I read that they were designed as an East German competition to the Schneider Kreuznach lenses. Bokeh, as mentioned above by hieber, might require testing...
Funny enough, at least three of them are still manufactured, by Docter Optics. Source:
http://www.docteroptics.com/me.....090525.pdf
7:47 am
June 22, 2012
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Lots of info on Bolex lenses (and cameras, projectors etc.):
10:00 am
March 27, 2012
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Thyl said
Lots of info on Bolex lenses (and cameras, projectors etc.):
Nice find Thyl. Thanks for posting it.
9:49 am
Camera Owner
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April 7, 2012
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Thanks Thyl for your continuing input in this thread!!
BTW. Could anyone estimate what kind of *usable* range (without vignetting) an Angenieux 15-150 zoom would have if used in the full frame format of the D16.
10:53 am
July 10, 2012
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I think the 15-150 can cover all the way down
4:38 am
June 22, 2012
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And yet another series of c-mount lenses that should be suitable for the D16 (not sure about Super 16 though):
Cine-Nikkors 6.5mm/f1.8; 10/1.8; 13/1.8; 25/1.2; 25/1.8; 50/1.8; 75/2; 100/2.8; 17-85/2.5
From the sixties, very rare, and like all Nikon gear back from the good old days, very pricey.
6:15 am
March 27, 2012
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analoggab said
Thanks Thyl for your continuing input in this thread!!BTW. Could anyone estimate what kind of *usable* range (without vignetting) an Angenieux 15-150 zoom would have if used in the full frame format of the D16.
It will cover the 2k S16 format, but I don't think it will cover full frame. It is nominally a standard 16mm format lens that happens to cover S16.
7:57 am
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March 17, 2012
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Anyone have experience or input regarding the use of Cosmicar lenses on S16 format?
10:58 am
July 10, 2012
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not intending to step over Ari's post, but I noticed that alan gordon's listed a bunch of gear on their ebay store which includes modern S16 zooms. I think the prices are a little steep at this juncture, but they may be negotiable to cut off 100s of dollars, as they seem to be cleaning out all their old inventory. Just make sure that they can testify accurately to the condition, as they probably have a lens tech on the payroll.
http://myworld.ebay.com/agecinevideo
1:30 pm
Camera Owner
February 28, 2012
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Man those are some tempting lenses they have on sale!
2:37 pm
Camera Owner
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March 17, 2012
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Too bad they're all PL mount. 
12:27 am
January 15, 2013
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With yesterday's blog post - I believe the lens revolution has started! How does this incredible news change you guys' perspective on lenses acquisition?
I can easily see myself with an F4 set and a few additional F2/F8 lenses for special cases.
12:19 pm
March 28, 2012
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That's pretty much my thinking. You could pay the same amount for not so great used glass online. Or a lot more for well maintained vintage glass. Even if you want other types of glass the mounts seem as if they will be really reasonably priced as well.
2:54 pm
January 15, 2013
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The D16 form factor and the fact that it can be used without a rig/follow-focus/mattebox/field monitor is a huge plus in my opinion.
Being able to just throw a few Tiffen ND filters at it and start shooting sounds great!
Considering the price of a follow-focus/rig/mattebox system, the electronic mount and filters are paid...
4:53 pm
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March 17, 2012
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pask74 said
The D16 form factor and the fact that it can be used without a rig/follow-focus/mattebox/field monitor is a huge plus in my opinion.
This is what it used to be like with S16 production. Thanks for getting the POINT. 
If this catches on, I'm interested to see what visual caveats will be in vogue. Take for example the DSLR boom: Shallow DoF and shooting WFO in low light. The hunt-for-focus-in-a-pastely-soup look is evident across the genre spectrum. If this takes off, will we see more locked off shots with actors stepping into focus? Will cameras whip and wash more frantically? Will line resolution be the new pixel count? Will the DNG/D16 look be identified only with what these lenses render?
I disagree with pask74's prediction of a revolution, though an evolution may be on the horizon.