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More footage?
Topic Rating: +154 (156 votes) 
January 1, 2014
3:44 pm
dreadas
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Hey, how many cameras have actually gone out?

Would love to start seeing some more footage popping up now.

Put those cameras to work Cool

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DVC
January 1, 2014
4:33 pm
Lukio
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Bloom posted pics of himself shooting with d16 in the rain so i’d expect a review or atleast some footage from him soon. I don’t think that many cameras are out there yet, it’s gonna take a while :)

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January 1, 2014
5:58 pm
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January 1, 2014
8:32 pm
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We are just ramping up now. We hoped to have a few more out before Xmas, but that didn’t happen and vacation time is crazy this time of year so we are just getting most people back tomorrow.

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January 1, 2014
8:47 pm
Harry Lime
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Look at the motion of the carrousel. Got to love that global shutter. It looks like a real movie.

 Can’t wait for my D16 to arrive.

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January 2, 2014
3:51 am
IndySkint
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Some sample grades of the Philip Bloom footage. I’m liking these files a lot, no noise or issues.

 

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January 2, 2014
4:34 am
dreadas
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Wow, I have been playing around with the footage.. an there is allot that I love about it!

 

I have no doubt that the D16 is a very nice camera. But is it for me.. I dont know I am still on the fence of the D16 and BMCC.

The D16 is exactly what it is.. a “Digital Bolex” and has that lovely vintage look to it. It feels like with plugin’s today (like Film Convert) it is easier to “dirty up” your footage and achieve something that resembles a “vintage look”. It might not be the D16 but and I know allot of ppl here would pick that footage apart.. but to be honest it is more or less passable.

I just dont know if I want my footage to ALWAYS look vintage… D16 seams more like a “flavor” to add to your arsenal. However most ppl in my situation can only afford 1 gun.

 

The image is extremely “thick” and cinematic. The global shutter no doubt is what has me sold.. I have been questioning the footage coming from Cmos sensors for so long.. not truly understanding what I didn’t like about it. Besides from the obvious jello pans etc.. but there was just something in the motion that I couldn’t explain or communicate that I did not like or did not find “cinematic”. The D16 global shutter is a huge + for me.. but at what cost?

My questions are:

 

1, By shooting with modern glass would you get a different more sharp and crisp image.. say like some of the stuff coming from the Pocket Cam or will the look always be of a more vintage bolex kind of look?

 

2, Does the Pocket cinema camera take the same glass as the D16?

 

3, Is the Metabones SpeedBooster for the pocket cam out yet? And if so will the this SpeedBooster be compatible with the D16?

 

4, File size, is it still 1tb for every 5min? But what if you are shooting a 10min short movie but have a total of several hours of footage shot.. I dont fully get how this is calculated?

 

5, “With its interchangeable Synonymous mount system, the D16 allows multiple professional mount systems to be used

So.. I CAN use my Canon EF glass that I ue on my 5D on this camera and other lenses I thought it had to be C-mount?

 

Kind Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

January 2, 2014
5:31 am
IndySkint
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1, By shooting with modern glass would you get a different more sharp and crisp image.. say like some of the stuff coming from the Pocket Cam or will the look always be of a more vintage bolex kind of look?

The DB is sharp. But yes the image will often depend on the glass you use. A lot of legacy glass is sharp though. 

 

2, Does the Pocket cinema camera take the same glass as the D16?

 Yes it can but the DB’s mounting system and soon to be released mounts are more versatile.

 

3, Is the Metabones SpeedBooster for the pocket cam out yet? And if so will the this SpeedBooster be compatible with the D16?

 Yes it is and I see no reason why it can’t be used on the DB’s MFT mount.

 

4, File size, is it still 1tb for every 5min? But what if you are shooting a 10min short movie but have a total of several hours of footage shot.. I dont fully get how this is calculated?

 That’s way off, it’s more like 20gbs for 5 mins. The Db’s internal SSD is 512gbs, that’s 1hr40mins @ 2K, just about 2hrs @ 1080 and 4hrs @ 720.

 

5, “With its interchangeable Synonymous mount system, the D16 allows multiple professional mount systems to be used”

So.. I CAN use my Canon EF glass that I ue on my 5D on this camera and other lenses I thought it had to be C-mount?

  Yes. The interchangable mounts that are being released are – EF, MFT, PL & more. The camera ships with the C-mount but this can be swapped out or you can use a third party EF to C-mount adaptor.

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January 2, 2014
5:34 am
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I’ve been holding back opinions regarding the recent footage that’s started to appear and as my camera hasn’t arrived yet I can’t give any first hand opinions. What I will say is firstly I very much like what I’m seeing from the D16 and Philip Bloom’s recent ‘Rain’ footage is the best yet, the motion and Global Shutter really do stand out and look very nice and ‘Film Like’. It’s good to see the camera shooting in the rain as over here in the UK this is our weather most of the year. Through examples of the footage I’m starting to think Sharper and more modern lenses are going to be a better choice for the D16 and the CCD sensor seems to give out a slightly soft but lovely vintage look and sharper lenses may reveal for detail, you can always grade the modern lens look for the desired feel in post. I really don’t think the Switar’s (as lovely and hand built as they are) are going to bring the best out of the D16 as they are slightly soft looking, especially in the corners.

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IndySkint
January 2, 2014
8:21 am
wado1942
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This has been answered already, but I wanted to add my $0.02.

 

dreadas said
I have no doubt that the D16 is a very nice camera. But is it for me.. I dont know I am still on the fence of the D16 and BMCC.

Philip Bloom has a basic comparison of pros & cons on his latest post about the differences between those cameras.  His next post on the subject will go into much greater detail though.  IMO, there’s no reason to chose the BMCC based purely on image and audio quality.  The D16 wins, end of story.  The BMCC has some other advantages that are not image or sound related though.

 

 

The D16 is exactly what it is.. a “Digital Bolex” and has that lovely vintage look to it.

The “vintage” look (whatever that means) depends entirely on your lenses and how you grade the image.  There’s nothing inherent about the D16 that makes it look old aside from the lack of lossy compression.

 

 

It feels like with plugin’s today (like Film Convert) it is easier to “dirty up” your footage and achieve something that resembles a “vintage look”.

This notion has always bothered me.  Ever since people started trying to make video look like film, they’ve done so by adding in simulated dirt, scratches, noise etc. and have never captured the positive aspects of film.  I’ve seen a lot of older movies and if they were treated with care, look fantastic even today.  I’ve shot plenty footage on vintage equipment that look great, not old.  On the other hand, video treated to emulate the adverse effects of poorly handled film still looks like video, just with fake film effects added on top.  “Crappy” and “vintage” are not mutually inclusive.

 

I just dont know if I want my footage to ALWAYS look vintage… D16 seams more like a “flavor” to add to your arsenal. However most ppl in my situation can only afford 1 gun.

I don’t own a video camera right now.  I plan on the D16 being my only gun.

 

The D16 global shutter is a huge + for me.. but at what cost?

The D16 is a little more expensive right out of the box, but it’s also a lot more usable out of the box.  That’s the only “cost” I can see and it’s self-cancelling considering fewer accessories are needed to start working with it.

 

 

Many people fail to realize that the resolution and “sharpness” (a perceived notion) of a camera is limited primarily by the lens.  I have an “HD” camera in the laptop computer I’m using to type this message and its actual resolution is only about 400 lines, which is much less than the standard definition industrial camera I currently have on loan, which easily does 700 lines.  The difference is the lens.  An EXCELLENT lens can resolve about 200 lines per millimeter onto a given plane when the iris is set to its “sweet spot”.  Open or close the iris from this point and the resolution decreases.  Most consumer grade lenses yield about 50 lines per millimeter.  For instance, if you have a lens that resolves about 50 lines per millimeter and your destination is an S16 sized 2K CCD, the useable resolution will be 600 lines.  Use a top quality prime lens and the resolution is closer to 2K.  Resolution isn’t really the key to perceived sharpness though.  The human eye sees contrast at the 40-line per millimeter range (20 cycles per mm) on a 35mm sized format to be the most important part of perceived sharpness.  On a 16mm sized image, it would be 80mm.  So, a lens that maintains almost 100% contrast at 80 lines per mm and has virtually nothing above that can look sharper than a lens that goes all the way up to 200 lines but is only 50% at 80 lines.  This is one reason why video cameras have a built-in sharpening function.  It increases the contrast in high-frequency details.  When pushed too hard, you can get lines around objects though.  The D16 doesn’t have this function, but you can add it in post if you like.  Modern film stocks do this too, BTW.  Vision3 actually has greater contrast at 20 cycles per mm than it does at 10 cycles, which is why it looks sharper than older stocks that actually have higher resolution!

 

Another part of a lenses “look” is the coatings.  Non-coated lenses don’t have any control over flare or glare.  This not only means hot spots reflect between elements in the lens, it also means lower overall contrast, weaker color etc.  More advanced coatings and fully coated (every element) lenses control glare very well and thus appear not only cleaner but sharper as well.  There’s a lot that goes into lens design and I’ve only scratched the surface.

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January 2, 2014
11:48 am
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Hey Dreadas,

You have already gotten great info from others, thank you others ;), but I thought I would chime in too.

dreadas said

1, By shooting with modern glass would you get a different more sharp and crisp image.. say like some of the stuff coming from the Pocket Cam or will the look always be of a more vintage bolex kind of look?

Yes you can get whatever look you want out of the D16. People are using a lot of vintage glass right now because the only mount we have ready is the C-mount, and most C-mount cinema lenses are vintage. If you use a modern lens like a CP2 used in this test it looks modern…

 

 2, Does the Pocket cinema camera take the same glass as the D16?

The Pocket can use S16 lenses, but not 16mm lenses. The D16 can use both.

 4, File size, is it still 1tb for every 5min? But what if you are shooting a 10min short movie but have a total of several hours of footage shot.. I dont fully get how this is calculated?

This was an estimate we came up with for all of your extra footage and back ups and renders and everything. The shooting size as pointed out is 5 Gb per minute.

5, “With its interchangeable Synonymous mount system, the D16 allows multiple professional mount systems to be used

So.. I CAN use my Canon EF glass that I ue on my 5D on this camera and other lenses I thought it had to be C-mount?

 

Yup EF, MFT, and PL out very early this year. And there is a big difference between using a camera with an interchangeable mount and using adapters.
 

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Grimorca
January 3, 2014
4:21 am
carlosruizcarmona
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Hi

 

Just to double check in terms of mounts MTF, EF ….

 

They are all passive and therefore you cannot use modern lenses such as the new lumix panasonic since they need an active mount, right?

 

You can only mount lenses which have their aperture on the lens ring,l right?

 

Thanks

 

CarlosSmile

 

January 3, 2014
4:44 am
wado1942
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carlosruizcarmona said
You can only mount lenses which have their aperture on the lens ring,l right?

You can mount any lens that will fit, but if it doesn’t have a focus or iris ring, you won’t be able to focus or control the iris.

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joerubinstein
January 3, 2014
5:53 am
IndySkint
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Am I right in saying that active mounts are planned for the future?

January 3, 2014
7:47 am
dreadas
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Thank you all for answering my questions.

Its good to know that its the glass that determines the look coming out.. I would love to see how the D16 would look when shot on some modern lenses.

 

1, Is there any way right now that one could shoot with MFT glass? (and would this be advisable?)

 

2, Would this monitor be compatible with the camera and the switronix battery? (any other monitor EVF recommendations?)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/…..eform.html

 

3, Can you use other battery solutions with the D16. Like this battery?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/POW…..33840826e2

With this V-mount?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Til…..4d0c615489

 

4, How soon would the MFT and other mounts be out for the D16?

 

January 3, 2014
8:33 am
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After seeing all this footage from various scenes, and seeing comparisons of cameras, I have to ask what is it about the D16 sensor that keeps it from aliasing? I know there is a little aliasing sometimes but so far this camera has been extremely good about resolving real detail and not false detail. For instance, this camera works in situations where my Canon ML raw, or a BMD Pocket would fall apart.

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January 3, 2014
11:17 am
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iaremrsir said
After seeing all this footage from various scenes, and seeing comparisons of cameras, I have to ask what is it about the D16 sensor that keeps it from aliasing? I know there is a little aliasing sometimes but so far this camera has been extremely good about resolving real detail and not false detail. For instance, this camera works in situations where my Canon ML raw, or a BMD Pocket would fall apart.

 

A nicely matched OLPF is the main reason.  Done right they really don’t cost you any resolution that wouldn’t be polluted by aliasing of higher frequency details the camera can’t resolve anyway.  CCD’s also have a higher fill ratio with smaller gaps between pixels which helps too.

One nice thing about a good OLPF is that you can apply significant sharpening in post to bring out real resolved detail without triggering aliasing artifacts. I like micro contrast adjustments for fine details as it improves MTF and the visual impression of sharpness without creating that hard edged over enhanced video look.

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January 3, 2014
11:32 am
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I believe DSLR cameras alias, because they line skip to get down to HD resolution.The sensor in the 5D much higher res than HD and in order to produce an HD res image they literary skip lines on the sensor. It’s something of a hack and of course produces aliasing.

The right way to do this is to either capture at a higher resolution and down sample in camera (4k capture -> HD) or window crop the sensor to the resolution you desire. I think the problem with the later is that the OLPF may be mismatched, but on some cameras like the Sony F5/F55 you can swap out the OLPF depending on if you are shooting 4k or 2k window mode.

With the D16 and most other cameras there is a direct receptor to pixel correlation. So, for every receptor on the sensor there is a corresponding pixel generated. 1920 receptors across gives you a 1920 image.

 

If I am getting this wrong, I ask some of our more engineering savvy members to chime in.

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January 3, 2014
12:57 pm
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dreadas said
Its good to know that its the glass that determines the look coming out.. I would love to see how the D16 would look when shot on some modern lenses.

 

Hi dreadas, I linked this before but I’ll link it again…

 

Do you think this footage looks vintage? To me it doesn’t.

1, Is there any way right now that one could shoot with MFT glass? (and would this be advisable?)

 

Not right now, but very soon! We are prototyping the EF and MFT mounts right now.

2, Would this monitor be compatible with the camera and the switronix battery? (any other monitor EVF recommendations?)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/…..eform.html

 

That monitor would work. We also like the SmallHD DP4 and the Zacuto EVF.

3, Can you use other battery solutions with the D16. Like this battery?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/POW…..33840826e2

With this V-mount?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Til…..4d0c615489

 

Yes that battery should work, but you need a way to get to the 4 pin XLR. We like the switronix Powerbase 70…

http://www.digitalbolex.com/pr…..ck-bundle/

4, How soon would the MFT and other mounts be out for the D16?

 

They should be prototyped and available to order later this month!

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January 3, 2014
12:59 pm
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iaremrsir said
After seeing all this footage from various scenes, and seeing comparisons of cameras, I have to ask what is it about the D16 sensor that keeps it from aliasing? I know there is a little aliasing sometimes but so far this camera has been extremely good about resolving real detail and not false detail. For instance, this camera works in situations where my Canon ML raw, or a BMD Pocket would fall apart.

As was stated before CCD sensors have bigger pixels that are closer together. This plus the perfectly matched OLPF reduce aliasing to almost zero. We tested many OLPFs before choosing one. The one we chose was designed specifically for this sensor.

 

Canon DSLRs line skip, and the BMCC and BMPCC don’t have OLPF filters at all from my understanding.

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January 3, 2014
1:57 pm
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IndySkint said
Am I right in saying that active mounts are planned for the future?

Yes active mounts are planned!

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January 3, 2014
1:59 pm
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joerubinstein said
Canon DSLRs line skip, and the BMCC and BMPCC don’t have OLPF filters at all from my understanding.

They do not have OLPFs.  Also, since CMOS sensors have smaller pixels, that further compounds aliasing.

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January 3, 2014
2:12 pm
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wado1942 said

joerubinstein said
Canon DSLRs line skip, and the BMCC and BMPCC don’t have OLPF filters at all from my understanding.

They do not have OLPFs.  Also, since CMOS sensors have smaller pixels, that further compounds aliasing.

Yeah you can purchase aftermarket ones to put in there, but alignment could be tricky.

January 3, 2014
2:50 pm
IndySkint
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joerubinstein said

IndySkint said
Am I right in saying that active mounts are planned for the future?

Yes active mounts are planned!

 

Most excellent. The momentum is building, yes?

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January 3, 2014
3:55 pm
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IndySkint said
Most excellent. The momentum is building, yes?

Yes definitely!

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