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Angenieux and 16mm glass
Topic Rating: +1 (1 votes) 
August 13, 2013
10:06 am
jordanservice
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So I was doing a quick search on ebay for old C-mount glass. And came across an Angenieux 12-120 lens. Now it says it is for 16mm bolex, will that fit the sensor or am I looking for Super 16mm glass-- did they even make glass that was specific for super 16? Or is all plain 16mm that covers super 16mm. Sorry for being so uninformed. 

 

Also, does anyone know if that is a good lens? There seem to be a bunch of them up on ebay for between 200-600 bucks. I figure that could be a good all around lens maybe. But overall there seems to be a lot of Angenieux,  Cooke, and Canon lenses for under 1k. 

August 13, 2013
10:15 am
joerubinstein

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Hi Jordan,

Yes the Angenieux 12-120 lens is an excellent lens!

The D16 has two shooting modes:

     -Regular 16mm : 1920 x 1080 (all 16mm lenses should cover this)

     -Super 16mm : 2048 x 1152 (S16mm glass is needed)

There are lenses that were specifically made for S16mm and they are usually PL mount and a bit more pricey.

August 13, 2013
10:40 am
analoggab

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So yeah the 12-120 only covers 16mm so it will vignette on S16.

Look into the Angenieux 15-150. S16 glass!!

August 13, 2013
10:50 am
Ari Davidson

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Canon also has a few options C-mount zooms. I like the Flourite C-16 10:1. http://www.c-mountlens.com/len…..a-e/canon/

August 29, 2013
6:56 pm
jordanservice
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What do you guys think of lenses that were made for TV like some of the Fujinon lenses?

 

August 30, 2013
2:05 pm
jordanservice
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Hey Ari, 

 

Do you have any footage with the Canon 12-120 fluorite or have you used it extensively? What is a fair price for that lens? 

 

There is a lot to like about it on paper, but i have been looking to see it used and can't find any footage. I like doing macro work too so this might be a great fit. 

August 30, 2013
9:51 pm
Veenotph
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I used to have the Canon 12 to 120, I liked it very much, but it was too slow for my needs (although unbelievably lightweight.) I don't have any footage to look at, but I did do a test years ago with a bunch of lenses on super 16 film, to see how they would handle going to Hi Def – . Here is a link to the article and also the frame grabs and .mov. In the test was an Angeniuex 12 to 120. It didn't have the sharpness of the Zeiss glass, and didn't cover Super 16 at the wide end, but the model looked so good at 120mm.

http://www.gladstonefilms.com/…..ticle.html

Hope you find this useful.

The following users say thank you to Veenotph for this useful post:

Razz16mm
August 31, 2013
12:05 am
joerubinstein

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I have the 15 – 150 and I like it, you need lens support for sure of course ;)

September 9, 2013
5:45 pm
joerubinstein

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But the 12-120 covers the entire active area in regular 16mm / 1080 mode :)

September 9, 2013
5:50 pm
jordanservice
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I ended up grabbing the Canon 12-120 flourite for a few hundred bucks. I really want to test it out Joe! 

September 9, 2013
5:50 pm
Razz16mm
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joerubinstein said
I have the 15 – 150 and I like it, you need lens support for sure of course ;)

You do? It's only a 2lb lens. Lots of news cameras, including Bolexes ran around with these or 12-120's on the nose with no support.

 

September 9, 2013
6:05 pm
joerubinstein

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Razz16mm said

joerubinstein said
I have the 15 – 150 and I like it, you need lens support for sure of course ;)

You do? It's only a 2lb lens. Lots of news cameras, including Bolexes ran around with these or 12-120's on the nose with no support.

 

Really? The lens has a bracket ring on it, and on ebay I often see it sold with a support, I guess I'm just nervous to support it just on the C-mount threads, but I guess it would probably work :)

November 6, 2013
8:30 am
bolexean
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I have recently been doing some research about reflex lenses (lenses with a built in prism and viewfinder) and up until now I have only been able to find two companies that made such a lens; Som Berthiot Pan Cinor zooms, and Angeniuex 12-120 f2.2 reflex. These lenses were made for Bolex 8mm and 16mm and other 16mm cameras and offered an optical viewfinder for non reflex cameras and were also popular with documentary journalists and especially for animation since the camera was up on the animation table and the viewfinder could be swiveled down for viewing. The reason I am so interested in these lenses is simple, I hate looking at Led, Lcd, or video viewfinders. I like to look through the glass and become one with the camera. I understand that this was not a viable option for the D bolex because of the added complications and costs of design. I think the only digital camera on the market that offers such a system is the Aaton Delta which has a hefty price tag of 90,000! A wonderful camera I am sure, but a little past my indie price range. If anybody has some more information about such lenses and whether or not they will work with the D bolex, that would be great. I am aware that there will be some cropping issues at wide angle with full resolution. During my search I came across other systems such as the Leica Visoflex system and some other companies such as miranda, which offered mirrored view finders for range finder cameras (mostly for long lenses and macro work) but no prism viewfinders. I am just kicking the ball around here but what I am thinking of is for example using full frame glass with a flange to film distance of 43-44 mm (roughly depending on which company). The adapter to c mount or bayonet for the D bolex would offer enough space to mount a prism in between with an optical view finder similar to the Angenieux or Pan Cinor. That way we can use all our 35mm glass and have an optical viewfinder. I guess wide angle could be a problem, and maybe I am the only one in the world that wants an optical viewfinder, and everyone else is happy looking at monitors. So before I go and patent this idea and invest time and money into producing such a product I wondered what other people thought about this issue, Optical viewfinder.

Cheers, and keep up the good work!

November 6, 2013
9:25 am
Razz16mm
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The Angenieux 12-120 f2.8 type A with pelicule reflex finder in C-mount will work, as will the Som-Berthiot c-mounts with reflex finder. They will cover the 1080p mode but not the 2k S-16 mode. 

The Angie 12-120's were used in great numbers on 16mm sound on film news cameras so you can probably easily find some examples, but finding a well maintained one in good condition may be a challenge. Expect to have it serviced to get the best out of it.

November 7, 2013
12:30 am
bolexean
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Thanks for your reply Razz,

I have ordered the 10x12 typeA  12-120 f2.2. i am also going to try out the Som berthiots. You did not however verse your opinion about optical view finders? of course it depends on the situation. On a jib or on a steadicam an optical viewfinder is pretty much useless, also on a tripod with a static shot a monitor is okay if you can see it. I guess what i am talking about is hand held filming, which the old bolex h16 rx is great for since it is light weight and small, there is something that happens to me when i  put my eye up to the ocular, and become one with the camera. I am sure d bolex will also have some sort of ocular viewer for the display (at least i hope that such an option will be offered) but i find staring at displays to be strenuous for the eyes. Hopefully the Angenieux will fill this gap.

cheers

November 7, 2013
4:22 am
Razz16mm
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With my old eyes these days I prefer a good EVF to optical finders for digital cameras.  I do generally prefer a view finder with eyepiece to a small LCD monitor especially for hand held work.  I like to see what the sensor is actually seeing.

I plan to add a Kinotehnik to the Bolex kit.

http://www.kinotehnik.com/prod…..r/overview

November 7, 2013
7:58 am
analoggab

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joerubinstein said

You do? It's only a 2lb lens. Lots of news cameras, including Bolexes ran around with these or 12-120's on the nose with no support.

 

Really? The lens has a bracket ring on it, and on ebay I often see it sold with a support, I guess I'm just nervous to support it just on the C-mount threads, but I guess it would probably work :)

That's probably because there are different versions of the 15-150. There is a 2.8 version which is similar in size and weight to the 12-120 and faster version (f2 Ithink) which very bulky and heavy and needs support.

 

Joe perhaps has an f2.

November 7, 2013
8:59 am
James M
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Razz16mm said
With my old eyes these days I prefer a good EVF to optical finders for digital cameras.  I do generally prefer a view finder with eyepiece to a small LCD monitor especially for hand held work.  I like to see what the sensor is actually seeing.

I plan to add a Kinotehnik to the Bolex kit.

http://www.kinotehnik.com/prod…..r/overview

I wasn't familiar with Kinotehnik. Their EVF looks like a great piece of gear and it seems like a great fit for the D16. Think I'm going to look into one or at least the smallHD DP4 with their EVF attachment. Both seem like good options.

 

November 7, 2013
12:55 pm
Razz16mm
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analoggab said

joerubinstein said

You do? It's only a 2lb lens. Lots of news cameras, including Bolexes ran around with these or 12-120's on the nose with no support.

 

Really? The lens has a bracket ring on it, and on ebay I often see it sold with a support, I guess I'm just nervous to support it just on the C-mount threads, but I guess it would probably work :)

That's probably because there are different versions of the 15-150. There is a 2.8 version which is similar in size and weight to the 12-120 and faster version (f2 Ithink) which very bulky and heavy and needs support.

 

Joe perhaps has an f2.

You are right. I have an older f2.8 version, weighs in at exactly 1kg.  The newer HEC version was T2/f1.8 and significantly heavier.

 

November 7, 2013
3:40 pm
joerubinstein

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analoggab said
Joe perhaps has an f2.

Yup f1.9 to be exact.

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