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12:07 am
July 10, 2012
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Any chance that the camera can come with integral 15/60mm rod support clamps? And strong ones at that
Also, what will the base be like? I know there will be a handle for hand held, but tripods are were much of the work will be done.
An over-engineered support base would be nice - especially if it would remove the need to buy costly dove and bridge plates.. some rudimentary counter-balancing ability would be nice, even if it\'s just so creating a cheeseplate out of the bottom
12:08 am
July 10, 2012
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FYI anyone, oconnor labs have a nice rundown of typical rod specs at http://www.ocon.com/labs/rod-s.....dards.html
10:48 pm
July 10, 2012
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ahh yes i searched but nothing came up.. my bad
but yeah, the more things that come packaged with camera, the better. Perhaps the B16 model is already finalized, but integral clamps and a long cheeseplate bottom seem like add-ons that might not be too costly to machine - i'm not sure however
The BMC pretty much requires a cage in addition to a bridge and dovetail plate.. Even without a cage it would be a good 500-1000$ just to get a good set of rods and counterbalacing for large lenses on a tripod. Since the BMC requires larger format lenses than s16, it requires largers plates if you're getting into the primo and zeiss zooms..
I think the B16's longer body and S16's comparitively smaller lens size to 35mm counterparts would not require too much length for counterbalancing, so simple offset direct attachment to a Quick release plate would probably be sufficient for all the S16 zoom lenses
6:01 am
June 22, 2012
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Mehopes that Digital Bolex comes up with a single, universal base plate that fits snugly, and does it all. All these adapter/cheese plate etc self-tinkered assemblies look totally amateurish to me (not to say ridiculous), and they require so many interconnections that serious doubts regarding stability must be raised. Have a look at any so called "DSLR rig".
One problem I presently see is the width of the handgrip. I am unsure if that might interfere with providing Arca Swiss compatible notches underneath the base plate. But I deem it essential to provide a base plate that also allows attaching the handgrip, so that the camera can alternately be used on a tripod and handheld (both using 15 mm rods), without the need to unsrew the base plate (which would contradict the notion of "quick release").
Another problem I see is the electrical connection to the handgrip that also needs to be passed through the base plate. And I would favour a base plate which has an additional outlet for connecting a cable release to the camera's underside, via the base plate.
8:24 am
July 10, 2012
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so you're actually wanting to have to spend extra money just to get the camera on a tripod with rods? Those things aren't cheap - expect to pay 500$ minimum. I'd much rather have rod clamps on the camera body, along with a long flat base with many threaded holes
Bridgeplates have a pretty standard design, and having a long flat base on the camera with lots of screw holes wouldn't prohibit a baseplate.. but a lot of screw holes would provide a nice base to attach directly to a fluid head's QRP, providing rudimentary balancing.
11:56 am
March 27, 2012
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If I am using the handle, I expect it will be with a lightweight lens that needs no support and no rail mounted attachments, shooting off the internal battery maybe with an external EVF and microphone and maybe not. This is not a camera that would be comfortable to hand hold in front of you for any extended shooting time. Too heavy. Figure minimum with lens only around 6 lbs with a prime and 7lbs with a compact zoom.
If I am production rigged with a base plate, rods, lens support, matte box, external battery, EVF/LCD, it will have a tripod QR plate that will accept a shoulder pad for a balanced shoulder mount rig. No handle needed. Switch between shoulder pad and tripod with the QR plate. Total rig weight in the 10-15lb range depending on battery and lens.
Depending on where they wind up centering the handle vs the tripod mount screw holes it might be possible to fit a QR plate for a small tripod forward of the handle or perhaps cutting away a standard QR plate to fit around it.
5:25 pm
Camera Owner
Kickstarter Backer
March 17, 2012
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RobertGL said
Any chance that the camera can come with integral 15/60mm rod support clamps? And strong ones at that
Also, what will the base be like? I know there will be a handle for hand held, but tripods are were much of the work will be done.An over-engineered support base would be nice - especially if it would remove the need to buy costly dove and bridge plates.. some rudimentary counter-balancing ability would be nice, even if it\'s just so creating a cheeseplate out of the bottom
Perhaps a system similar to the Arri Alexa? Enough room to store say 4"-6" 15mm rods?
8:44 pm
July 10, 2012
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like this?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2uBQ.....exa_03.jpg
Looks exactly like what I would want. Just so that it's very strong.
A linkage for a shoulder back-stock like the Krasnogorsk 3 would be something to consider to assist with the handle
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/.....e40a20.jpg
there's probably plenty of gun stock producers that might be able to engineer an awesome stock system
.. personally most of the shoulder rigs look cumbersome to me.. I don't think the DB16's weight profile justifies shoulder rigging, but I'm sure some will find situations for it
10:09 pm
March 27, 2012
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My Canon GL2 complete ready to shoot weighs about 2-1/4 lbs. This is reasonably comfortable to handhold in front of you and shoot for some extended time, but it is hard to hold stable after only a few minutes of continuous shooting. You lose fine muscle control as fatigue sets in.
The D16 by itself with only the handle weighs in a 5.5 lbs according to the specs.
My primes weigh mostly around 8 oz, so 6 lbs all up with a prime, except for the 5mm wide which weighs in at 3lbs+.
Angie 15-150 weighs 2lbs, 12-120 2.2 lbs. Both can be carried with no external support needed. 7.5 lbs+ shooting weight. Add another 8 oz for series 9 hood and filters.
Compact lightweight zooms that I would use for casual walk around shooting include an Angie 17-68 at 1 lb and a Schneider 16-80 1.5 lbs. 6-7 lbs. shooting weight. This is the outer limit for me for stable unsupported hand holding out in front of you for shots more than a few seconds long.
The Cooke 9-50 weighs in at 4lbs, needs support, as does the Angie 12-240 at 5.5lbs. Neither is practical to hand hold in front of you for shooting.
Add another pound+ for a Zacuto or SmallHD DP4 EVF/LCD. 8 oz. for a small shotgun mic and mount. 2lbs for a matte box and filters.
The best quality EFP single lens production combo is the Cooke with a DP4. Fully rigged out with a rail set and an external battery for counter balance + matte box and filters you are sitting around 14lbs. This is Betacam weight range and a good weight for a balanced shoulder rig that leaves both hands free for the lens.
But most of the time a rig like this will be sitting on a tripod.
5:58 am
Camera Owner
Kickstarter Backer
March 17, 2012
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RobertGL said
like this?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2uBQ.....exa_03.jpgLooks exactly like what I would want. Just so that it's very strong.
Exactly!
A linkage for a shoulder back-stock like the Krasnogorsk 3 would be something to consider to assist with the handle
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/.....e40a20.jpgthere's probably plenty of gun stock producers that might be able to engineer an awesome stock system
.. personally most of the shoulder rigs look cumbersome to me.. I don't think the DB16's weight profile justifies shoulder rigging, but I'm sure some will find situations for it
This was the first 16mm camera I ever shot on. Oh the looks I got shooting with the gunstock mounted
The Bolex H16 had one as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUN-ST.....41563da3e9
7:06 am
March 27, 2012
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Never tried a gunstock mount. I have shot with Bolexes and Bell&Howells with handles like the D16, similar weight range.
The most comfortable handheld16mm rig I ever shot with was the Aaton.
http://www.calstatela.edu/tvf/.....tonxtr.jpg
The Betacam ENG cameras i shot for TV news could balance on the shoulder hands free. Both hands on the lens for operating.
8:01 am
June 20, 2012
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Razz16mm said
Never tried a gunstock mount. I have shot with Bolexes and Bell&Howells with handles like the D16, similar weight range.
The most comfortable handheld16mm rig I ever shot with was the Aaton.
http://www.calstatela.edu/tvf/.....tonxtr.jpg
Nothing beats an aaton.
11:32 pm
June 22, 2012
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Razz16mm said
If I am using the handle, I expect it will be with a lightweight lens that needs no support and no rail mounted attachments, shooting off the internal battery maybe with an external EVF and microphone and maybe not. This is not a camera that would be comfortable to hand hold in front of you for any extended shooting time. Too heavy. Figure minimum with lens only around 6 lbs with a prime and 7lbs with a compact zoom.
If I am production rigged with a base plate, rods, lens support, matte box, external battery, EVF/LCD, it will have a tripod QR plate that will accept a shoulder pad for a balanced shoulder mount rig. No handle needed. Switch between shoulder pad and tripod with the QR plate. Total rig weight in the 10-15lb range depending on battery and lens.
Depending on where they wind up centering the handle vs the tripod mount screw holes it might be possible to fit a QR plate for a small tripod forward of the handle or perhaps cutting away a standard QR plate to fit around it.
The idea of rails for handheld operation occured to me after I found out that there might be a need for two filters, an ND filter and a colour conversion filter. So, a matte box would be a natural choice. I actually bought the worst, but lightest "matte box" (actually only a compendium without filter holders) to combine it with a Cokin filter holder. I however have not found a perfect solution how to combine these two items so far. But that would be a very lightweight solution. Admittedly, now that Digital Bolex is considering to offer more shutter options, the need for a filter holder might not be that urging any more.
And woulddn't it also be a good idea to provide a shoulder mount that includes a battery (counter weight) that attaches on the rear portion of the rails? A bit like this for example:
http://ergocine.blogspot.de/
3:12 am
March 27, 2012
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Thyl said
The idea of rails for handheld operation occured to me after I found out that there might be a need for two filters, an ND filter and a colour conversion filter. So, a matte box would be a natural choice. I actually bought the worst, but lightest "matte box" (actually only a compendium without filter holders) to combine it with a Cokin filter holder. I however have not found a perfect solution how to combine these two items so far. But that would be a very lightweight solution. Admittedly, now that Digital Bolex is considering to offer more shutter options, the need for a filter holder might not be that urging any more.
And woulddn't it also be a good idea to provide a shoulder mount that includes a battery (counter weight) that attaches on the rear portion of the rails? A bit like this for example:
http://ergocine.blogspot.de/
I love that ergocine rig! What an elegant design. I really prefer that type of balanced low sitting shoulder rig for hand held shooting.
I have screw on lens hoods and a series 9 filter holder for my Angenieux zooms. It will take a 2 filter stack. But I definitely want to add a decent matte box at some point.
5:03 am
July 10, 2012
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that's an awesome rig, but 1500$!!
on ebay and amazon theres a chinese vendor that sells 4x5.65 matteboxes for 250$.. is swing-away as well.
I'm thinking about buying one at some point.
I have a chrosziel 4x4 bellows for which I attached the metal compression ring that came from my lens hood that accepts 4-1/2 filters, but it's kind of hacked together. Seems to work well however; can get three 4-1/2 filters stacked.
Foam donuts or gaffers tape is good for covering light leaks in absence of the rubber rings.. doesn't have to be nuttin' fancy to me - I just want cheap gear.
This guy sells bridgeplates for about as low as I can find, although it's a minimum price listing, that could get bid up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA.....1149511134
These support bases are expensive things.. 500+is what you'll have to pay to get rods and balancing on a tripod
7:57 am
June 22, 2012
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Could probably be made cheaper if not using wood. In this case, it would presumably be a genuine Digital Bolex accessory that includes a battery and a removable SSD connected to the D-16 via USB 3 (on-the-go). I also thought about a shoulder rig that is monolithic and includes a base plate, and bores for rods, but I think a more modular approch might be more flexible.
Being a minuscule manufacturer, Digital Bolex of course has to wisely decide what accessories they want to come up with.